Body vibrations SW-T 400

Hi,
I'm trying to fix my problem with body vibrations. When i riding i feel vibrations on feet platform, seat, steering. Now i have original new variator set, belt, clutch. But today i dismounted belt, clutch and variator and when the engine is running vibrations are too. So i'm sure that is from engine. Do you feel the same on your bikes? I checked upper rubbers and both are fine. No damages.
Please write me any message if you have any solutions.

P.S. sorry for my bad english but i try write and talk without google translator.

Hello PoohPL, your English is just fine. Certainly much better than my Polish.

About the vibrations you are feeling, if understand your post you say that the same vibration happens even when you remove the belt and variator and test run while on the center stand. If that is the case then you should check to insure both spark plugs are working.

You mentioned that you’ve had the Silverwing for 3 years. Is this vibration some which suddenly occurred, or has it gradually developed over time?

Tim

I didn't felt this vibrations in last season. I don't remember how it was but i'm almost sure that everything was fine. It is my first motorcycle and when i start ride on that i was very exciting🤪.
It looks like "ants" on body. If you know what i mean.

Hi.

Check engine crankshaft.
Remove variator and listen carefully crankshaft sound while engine running. These russian mechanics find out where is the problem on SW-T400 when engine knocking. I think this knocking cause vibration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrt5wDV7Hvg

On my SW-T600 there is little vibration in 3800rpm while driving but otherwise it goes very smoothly.

Maybe you must check at first throttle body sync, spark plugs and air filter.

I have not this horizontal move of crankshaft. Spark plugs are almost new and the air filter i changed one month ago.

EDIT:
Today i will tried to check a valve clearance but when i turned the engine i saw that the timing marks are on position, but crankshaft mark are wrong

It would be amazing if the engine was running with the timings marks so far out of alignment. But who knows? some engines are more forgiving.

I would start by getting those timing marks lined up correctly.

(I remember some old ford car engines which would run (badly) with the plug leads connected in any random order!)

Hmm.. interesting.

Check cam chain tensioner and rotate the engine counter clockvise of the side of the variator and check align again.

I have an info that the time chain is to long and i have to change this. I have 64 thousands kilometers. So maybe it's true. Nobody open the head cover before me because original seal was on the half circle of countershaft.

Okay.

I recommend to change also the chain tensioner. If you use old tensioner you need tensioner tool for removing. Remove a nut and turn the tensioner shaft in clockwise ja lock it to position. This tool can easily made from 1mm thickness piece of metal or made it from screw driver. Check this video.

https://youtu.be/XG6c_uhrVOw?t=50

The timing between the crank and cams is determined by the tight chain run on the tension side of the chain running down from exhaust cam to the crank. The tensioner is on the other chain run so it affects tension but not timing. It is pretty common for the cam chain to stretch over time and this causes the cam timing to start to lag slightly against the crank and give the timing mark difference that you have shown in th photos. VTR1000's certainly do the same thing.

Ok. But this situation can cause the vibrations of body? I didn't find more problems

arskal wrote:

Okay.

I recommend to change also the chain tensioner. If you use old tensioner you need tensioner tool for removing. Remove a nut and turn the tensioner shaft in clockwise ja lock it to position. This tool can easily made from 1mm thickness piece of metal or made it from screw driver. Check this video.

But all what he did is, he made a tensioner stronger.

Edit:
So today i disassembled the chain, I try to explain what i saw. Service manual told me that when i want to mounted intake camshaft and exhaust camshaft they must be set like in the picture from manual. Then marks are on the cylinder head level.

But in my engine is a little bit difference. If i set the sprocket on the marks then cams lobes are not facing in. my picture shows what i mean

You are dealing with a four stroke engine and that means the cams run at half the speed of the crank (the cams do one revolution for every two of the crank). If you rotate your crank one full revolution you will be able to get the cam lobes facing in like the manual.

Ok. But this it's when the chain is mounted. But now i have the chain disassembled. So the valves are closed and the pistons are in the highest position.

And for what is mark F on the flywheel?

Ok, so today i made a recognize of timing. When the mark T is on correct place, then cylinder "1" is in the compression mode and cylinder "2" is in the suction mode. But the cam lobes of cylinder "2" are in something between open intake and close exhaust. So when we try to the chain mounting it is nessesary to set the cams on the marks with cylinder head level. Because of course we can't have all valves close in one time. It was my mistake, but the service manual is not exact with this.

I hope it is clean for you what i want to say.

I'm sorry but I don't understand what you are asking here.

If the chain is out (I assume you mean removed) then there is no connection between the crank and cams so the cams can be in any orientation.

When the cams are reinstalled the crank should be on the T mark and the IN and EX marks aligned with the camcover surface and pointing inwards along with the #1 cam lobes. If you have removed the cam sprockets from the cams then these could be rotated 180 degrees so the IN and EX marks don't align with the #1 cam lobes.

I was thinkin that something is wrong with my cams, because the manual shows something different on picture. I know the sings have to be on the cylinder head surface. But i was thinking that the #2 cam lobes should be on 180 degrees rotated to #1, but they aren't.

PoohPL1982 wrote:

And for what is mark F on the flywheel?

F mark is for ignition timing, checked with a stroboscope while the engine is running

Ok. It is clear. Thanks

As far as I can tell, the #1 cylinder is the left side so furtherest from the cam sprockets. I was expecting the cylinder numbering to be shown somewhere on the service manual but I'm either having a senior moment or Honda are keeping this a secret.

I think you are going too far with all these engine issues.  If it's never been apart and timing chain is very close than a little wear is normal. Valve clearance check is good.

Front plastics do vibrate mostly on acceleration mine does.  Some are more sensitive to it and it's noisy sometimes.   Mine was getting worse found all the windshield screws were loose repaired that but still some vibration from front body parts.

That engine is in time. There are two a balance shafts in SW engine but it's gear driven from crank and unless it's been apart i don't see an issue.  ??

"As far as I can tell, the #1 cylinder is the left side so furtherest from the cam sprockets. "

I'm not sure of that. My three honda cars has always #1 cylinder close of cam sprockets.
But. Manual sad that when the chain was disassembled first we set the signs facing together. On my cams it's the cylinder close to chain. So for me this cylinder is #1

Honda bikes always number cylinders from left to right, so 1 is always the left cylinder, and left is as seen by the rider.

Your picture ........



...it is not clear to me if that is two strokes (II) or a stroke & a timing mark (IT) ?

Stroke & timing mark are for valve timing

While

Two strokes are for counter balance timing

The different marks are 270 degrees apart (which is 1 1/2 turns of the crankshaft)

Possibly you are trying ti do valve timing on the wrong set of marks ?

Mech 1 twa wrote:

I think you are going too far with all these engine issues.  If it's never been apart and timing chain is very close than a little wear is normal. Valve clearance check is good.

Front plastics do vibrate mostly on acceleration mine does.  Some are more sensitive to it and it's noisy sometimes.   Mine was getting worse found all the windshield screws were loose repaired that but still some vibration from front body parts.

That engine is in time. There are two a balance shafts in SW engine but it's gear driven from crank and unless it's been apart i don't see an issue.  ??

I tend to agree bud, mine had rattles from the screen & the right hand 'glove box'
I seem to recall that some time ago a member systematicly taped panel joints until the noise disappeared, thus identifying where the noise was coming from.

Maybe this pictures explain how the flywheel sings looks. I think that my IT is -| | ( T on the right side and | ). So i'm sure that i try to adjust the valves correct.

Quote :

I tend to agree bud, mine had rattles from the screen & the right hand 'glove box'
I seem to recall that some time ago a member systematicly taped panel joints until the noise disappeared, thus identifying where the noise was coming from.

But i have not any noises. Only vibrations (seat, feet stands and steering)

I found the plastic on SilverWings not so good---both of mine had lots of funny noises----FIX I took lots of little stainless sheet metal screws, drilled small pin holes, put the self tapping screws in and noises would go away

Never real shakes from engines or trouble.

With respect, I think you're reading too much into this.

Mine's a 2001 model and I know that the fairing above the headlight rattles when the engine is cold. I get a slight 'clatter' from the CVT at motorway speeds, I think the ramp plate is a bit worn.

The plastic fairing rattles because a previous owner broke the lugs off. The CVT has 'clattered' for the last 16,000 miles and seems fine. My SW vibrates under various conditions.

It may be normal?

When I bought my SW last february some lugs were missing in the left panel, and it rattled. I applied silicon in the joint between the side panel and the glove box panel, and secured them tight overnight with rubber bands. Now they are bonded and silent
To remove a panel you'll just need to run a cutter along the joint

efinglada wrote:

When I bought my SW last february some lugs were missing in the left panel, and it rattled. I applied silicon in the joint between the side panel and the glove box panel, and secured them tight overnight with rubber bands. Now they are bonded and silent
To remove a panel you'll just need to run a cutter along the joint

You are a bad, bad person for suggesting this. The previous owner of my Swing broke MOST of the securing lugs and the used silicone to fit ALL of the top fairing and skirt panels. I hate him! Don't be like him!

(sorry; it's your bike, do as you please).

There seems to be plenty of foam blocks that should be stuck to various parts of the bike for vibration control; if these have fallen off with age then more vibration is natural.

Mine had only one or two lugs missing, not a general problem
Definitely is not the solution for you
Rgds

So, everything is done. Timing id ok and engine works fine. But vibrations are still. I think that it must be like this.

So now that you’ve determined that the rattling and vibrations is not due to a “worst case scenario” why not try what The Bern suggested. Tape all the panel joints, ride round and gradually remove maybe even replace those taped joints to see what / where the noise comes from.

It just might be due to broken tabs on the body panels.

But, when i tested the vibratios that is even when plastic panels are disassembled. Side panels, seta, rear panel. So i'm sure that is not from panels.

Hallo again,
I'm still fighting with scooter shaking.
It look like clutch sliding between 50-65km/h. I'm sure that comes from Clutch unit. But clutch pads are new, belt is new. Needle bearing in Face set is new. But last time when i rapaired Face Set Movable Drive (23221MCT315 ) i saw that the "beans" have a liitle bit damages in a top. it looks like the pins damaged the holes when the Face Set Movable Drive going out. It is possible, that is the reason of shaking between 50-65km/h?

The Face Set Movable Drive "beans" are on the picture. But it's only to explain what i heva mean.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SK1tyBK3ZEztoUuW9

Today i made a photo of mine Face Set Movable Drive
https://photos.app.goo.gl/rWx6Zjx4An7NrxRD8

Here short movie
https://photos.app.goo.gl/AkN1mypZrEebW1ov5