rode a Burgman yesterday

lot of difference.  wider. way more power. nicer electric powered windshield. had factory cruise. have choice to shift with up and down buttons or leave on auto.  like it better than the silverwing except loud whining it made. my SW has vibration somewhere;  sounds like loose plastic. dont like the burgmans wide floor boards either!. too hard on my hip..need a replacement.Doc says too young?  here is pic of myself on my 05 SW  and my good friend Dan on his new to him 07 Burgman. he hant had a bike since 73 when we both bought 750s on same day .;he bought a 750 Norton Commando and I bought a 750 Triumph Hurricaine.  wish had that today

         


                                       

Thank you for your Burgman review. The Burgman does not come with factory cruise although someone may have added it before Dan bought it. I have bad hips(need both replaced) and I agree that the Burgman is too wide. Have you tried to search your loose plastic down? There have been people that have found and fixed their rattles. What part of your scooter does the sound seem to come from? If you can give us some clues we may be able to help.

I had a Burgman 650 for awhile but got worried about the transmission problem that's plagued several on the Burgman forum. Where the Silverwing and BMW both use a centrifugal variator to change the belt ratios the Burgman uses a small electric motor with nylon gears to operate the variator. when it fails it's very expensive to repair. Other than that I thought it was a great scooter, but I sold it and went with the BMW 650GT. The BMW is like a SW that's been on steroids for awhile.

I went on a demo ride when they came to the local dealer . there was about 20 different model to chose from an no one went for the 650 executive .I found it was taller and heavier than the swing .I did not like the braking of scoot when I throttled down,It gave a jerking motion hard to control,very sensitive. I will stay with my tried and true Swing. Much easier to work on then the Burgman. 

I had an 08 650 Burgman Executive for a couple of years, I bought mine almost new with 50 miles on the clock. It was fine for Euro touring with Mrs M and we went on a couple of trips to Germany and Luxembourg. Looking back now it was a big heavy hard to clean lard a** lump, and two years ownership was more than enough for me. The lighter Silver Wing aces the big Burgman in everything except under seat storage.

The new updated version 650 Burgman looks better than my 08 and even with the just announced £1000 off price promotion from Suzuki GB I'm still not tempted.

My initial dislike of the Burgman 650 was simply a matter of looks.  A bike either looks great when you walk up to it, or it doesn't.  For example, I really like the new Silverwing that KA3JOY bought.  I saw the picture come up and I had to comment on it.  It is beautiful.

On the other hand, when I walk up to the front of a white 650, I think of Moby Dick.  A whale.  And if it is a gray 650, I think of an elephant.  Sorry, but that's just my personal perspective.    I'm sure actual owners don't feel the same way.    That's why they own one, and I don't.  

But the other thing that came up later, kind of clinched the decision.  The CVT is overly complicated and if it fails, it's a major repair.  Initially, it was thought the 650's CVT was bullet-proof.  None had failed.  But the owners didn't ride them much either.  It hasn't been until recently when enough mileage has accumulated for the failures to begin showing up.  

Sure there are some people who have fixed it in their garages, but they have a lot more mechanical background than the average owner.  When I had my Burgman 400, I could completely disassemble and change out every part in the CVT in less than an hour, and that included putting away the tools and washing the grease off my hands.  It took a lot initially to get over the fear of screwing things up if I took it apart, but I found out it wasn't that bad.  I think the Silverwing would be much the same way.

I would never attempt the 650's CVT.  The idea of having to strip the bike down to the frame to remove the engine and CVT is more than I would want to attempt.  I think I'd be looking at the bike much later and wondering where the extra parts go.  So for me, I'd be looking at having the dealership do the repair at a cost of $3000-3500.  And for that reason, as they say on the TV show Sharks, "I'm out."

I just did a quick look over on BurgmanUSA.  In one thread on CVT repairs, lambgrab looks like his failed at 42,000 kms or 26,700 miles.      Mr StacyEW is tearing apart his 2011 650 with 19,600 miles apart because the CVT has failed.  That's on page 25.  There are more failures before in the thread, and elsewhere on the forum.

Either bike's mileage is only around two years of riding for me.  I like being able to go out to my bike, back it out of the garage, start it up and ride away with confidence.  I think it would make me continually wonder if some strange noise was my CVT failing and the possibility of a $3K+ expense coming up.  The bells and whistles the 650 have are not worth it.  An electrically adjustable windshield and mirrors on a boat anchor is not impressive.    It's something to catch the potential buyer's eye till they sign the sales contract.

I'd stick with the Silverwing, or some of the other new bikes in that category that Honda has come up with.  They work.

Chris

Chris,

I read the Burgman site too and the CVT does scare me too. I even thought of the B650 when looking at a new bike but they are also almost $12,000 here in the bay area. I know a very small percentage ever have a problem, and if they have the warranty, the shop will fix it. But I decided on the CTX700 and enjoy it. It has the same functions as the B650 with the auto and manual mode and they are fun to play with, but after a while I just use the D (drive) on the interstate and S (sport) for the city.

It is too bad they don't bring the Integra over here since I think it would sell. Although I hear those that are over 6' tall may have a problem. Did you sell your 400?

Yes, I sold the 400.  It was tough...  

I realized finally, that I just wasn't riding it.  I happened to look over my gas records and found I had only put gas in it three times in a year.  As much as I normally rode it, that would be about a week and a half's worth of riding.  Then the week before Daylight Savings Time was to change over, I saw that the clock was still on DST.  In other words, I hadn't ridden it since the fall.

I bought it new for $3996 and sold it three years later with 27,000 miles for $3750.  Not bad.    If I had been riding it like normal, it would've been up at about 39,000 miles at least.

The Integra would definitely be worth considering.  Right now, if anything happened to my NT700V, I'd probably look for another.  Shifting doesn't bother me at all.  I think the NC700X and CTX700 would be up there on the short list...and so would the Silverwing.  There is a lot to be said for the scooter design for storage and weather protection.  Maintenance is simple on these bikes.  And the Silverwing has a bit more power than the Burgman 400 had.

But for now, I plan to keep the NT700V till I quit riding.  I'm planning on visiting my daughter at Stanford next year and thought about riding down to stop by your place while I'm there. Maybe have you show me some of your roads and see if I can keep up with you.

Chris

Chris,

I looked for an NT as well when I was looking. I almost bought one about 2-3 years ago when one was on sale at the Honda shop. I always liked that bike. If you get down this way make sure you get in touch with me. We can go on a nice ride.

Hi Chris---it's Sam (Porky) from the NT site, Burgman site, Yamaha Majesty site etc. My Brother in Christ, it's good to see you here. I just joined yesterday since I am thinking about buying a new Silverwing shortly.

I am on my 3rd Burgman 650 and have never had a problem with any of them. Looking back, of the 77 bikes and scooters that I've owned, only one bike had factory/ inherent problems and that was my new 1987 BMW, R65, that had an inadequate charging system that unless ridden everyday practically, the battery would loose the charge. Two weeks after I bought it, it stranded me on the side of the road. BMW of course fixed the problem but my faith in the bike was gone so I sold it the next day.

Most of us that own 650 Burgman's probably use the fancy shifting trans thing when we first try out the features and then, never again: Just leave it in the factory default, as in the Silver wing and it goes just fine.

I just like to buy a new toy occasionally so I'm looking at the 600 Silverwing. I guess they stopped making them or importing them--is this correct?

For now, my 2013 Kymco Xciting 500RI ABS, my 2005 Burgman 650 and my 2012 Goldwing will suffice. When it warms up the Silver wing will be tested!

Sam:)

Sam, you make me laugh. :D I wish I lived closer to you, so I could perhaps pick up one of your bikes when you decide to move on to another. :D :D

I knew a guy while I was in the Air Force who would buy a car like a Chevy Super Sport with all the bells and whistles on it, do some nice customization on it...and then sell it 2 years later. He was convinced he saved money by replacing the car each year. I would've liked to have picked up his cars when he was done with them. Like your bikes, they were pristine.

The Silverwing is a great bike. It has a lot going for it. Plenty of power, good storage. Great weather protection. Good looks too. Maintenance is simple and doesn't cost much. If you can't find a new one, you can probably find a gently used one with few miles on it for not much money.

Chris

The Silverwing is a great bike. A guy could wish for some handi - items like cruise control and an accessory plug in but otherwise it is fine. They arent coming into USA after 13 so far as I know.

Porkie, if you like Burgmans (and why not) get another one. These do have upgrades and are supported by the factory. I think the Burgman is a Marque of the big scooter line up. Any other manufacturer, Honda included) has a LOT of competition against the Burgman (400 or 650). I think this has a lot to do with Honda's weaker position in the USA scooter line up.

I love mine, its a honda, won't need parts, easy to have worked on etc. Runs like a TOP and wont leave u by the side of the road.

HI Jeff, I looked at an NT700 today. Actually Ive looked at it many times as it is new unsold. This thing is terrifically expensive, 11K or so, I forget. I like the lines and feel but the price would keep me off it. Is there a reason why this bike is/was so expensive?

Greysilver wrote:

HI Jeff, I looked  at an NT700 today.  Actually Ive looked at it many times as it is new unsold. This thing is terrifically expensive, 11K or so, I forget. I like the lines and feel but the price would keep me off it. Is there a reason why this bike is/was so expensive?

As an owner of an NT700V, I'd say go in and do some negotiating.  I bought a brand new 2011 black NT in May of 2013 for $6995, plus tax.  No other charges, like dealer prep, transportation or anything.  The $11,200 was actually "reasonable" when you considered what it came with, and what it would cost to add those features onto some other bike.

I have over 18,000 on mine since I bought it.  I wouldn't trade it for any other bike, and if something happened to it, I'd look for another.  Like the Silverwing, they are bullet-proof.  

Chris

Greysilver,

The new one I looked at back then was discounted a couple of thousand dollars.  So that was a good deal.  I liked the looks, sitting on it was very comfortable, storage, and that it is driveshaft so there is no changing of belts or chains.  Not that changing a belt bothered me at all.  

But as Chris said, you could negotiate with the dealer I'm sure.  If it is new it means it has sat on the floor for awhile and has depreciated quite a bit just by being a couple of years older.  If they would have had new NT's it sure would have been a tough decision between the NT and the CTX.  But then they probably wouldn't even had made the CTX if the NT was still available, IMO.  I think they also get about 55-60 mpg so that's not bad either.

As for the Burgman 650 I hear they ride very smooth and are very nice. But reading the burgman forum it kind of scared me if it did break a CVT belt. I know the possiblity is very remote but they are about $3,000-3,500 to repair. I do know if I ever bought the 650 I would get the extended warranty. But like I said, ,I have heard they are the smoothest scooter out there, but I alwys was very happy with how smooth my SWing was. It purred along at 70-80mph and was very smooth.

I rode pillion on a BIG a** Burgy.....never again.

I have about 5000 miles on my BMW C650GT scooter now. The more I ride this bike the more I like it. The aren't cheap, just a bit less than the Burgman 650. As far as scooters go I've owned two SWs, one Burgman 650 and now the GT. The GT has as much space under the seat as the Burgman, considerably more power and definitely the best handling in the twisties of any scooter I've ever ridden. I can make nearly the same speed through some of our local winding two lane roads on the GT scooter as I can on my K1100LT. The GT as a lot of niceties as well, heated seat and grips, electrically operated windshield, ABS, tire pressure monitor and air temperature gauge with ice warning.The single sided swing arm makes it a ten minute job to remove the rear wheel. Mine also has the BMW top box with matching paint as well. With the top box on I can carry just about as much as I could on my '07 Goldwing.
Having owned all three scooters I'd rate my GT best followed by the SW and the Burgman last due to it's complexity and difficult maintenance.

I really liked the rear wheel accessibility in case of a flat or tire replacement. The rest of the scoot was nice with good features. There is only one BMW dealer around and it's 75 miles south and they had 1 new 2011 C600 Demo and it was still $9,000 plus and none of the recalls were ever done on it! It was to cold to ride when I sat on it about a week ago so I didn't get to see how it performed. The Taiwanese KYMCO engine and powertrain should be good as they have a good rep and build the engines for all of the parallel twin BMW GS series bikes.

I had 2 brand new 2010 Honda NT700's, a silver one and a red one and they were good if not exciting bikes but as a package, they had it all for a good price and are very reliable.

In the mix for a new scooter as soon as the weather allows is a new: Silver Wing or 2013 14 or 15 650 Burgman or a new 2015 BMW C600.

So many choices----so little time:)

Sam:)

The BMW C600 is a fine bike, if I weren't using my 650GT for errands that need the cargo space under the seat plus the extra goodies on the GT I'd have a 600. I have the BMW top case on mine which is very handy when using the bike to bring home a week's worth of groceries. The wife and I can both to to the store for the weekly chore on the scooter and load it up under the seat and in the big trunk. The thing hauls like a truck. The more I ride it the better I like it. The handling on the road and in the twisties is the best of any scooter I've had. It still seems odd that BMW calls it a 600 when both scooters have the same 647cc displacement.

You know I've thought about that 600-650cc thing and I think it may help someone when they originally insure the scoot as a 600 instead of a 650. BMW did the same thing on their GS line, where one was an 800 and the other a 700 (??)

I had a 2000 BMW K1200LT-c and that could really haul the groceries:)

PS---I've been to Oregon many times and came very close to buying property and building in either Brookings or Gold Beach. I used to drive in with some friends every year to Grants Pass and we'd Salmon fish, with guides on one of the many great rivers flowing towards the Pacific. I was in Medford one summer when it was 110 degrees!!! By the way, Oregon and Missouri aside from the mountainous regions in Oregon, are carbon copies of each other in their beauty.

Sam:)

It does get hot in the summer here but does it in a civilized way. It might hit 105F in a July or August afternoon but usually doesn't get that high until after 1400 or so. Nights are cool as are mornings and the first half of the days. Winters are a lot easier than MO. At least compared to Fort Leonard Wood where I had basic training. Today was sunny and 66F. I had a nice ride on my GT. And the LT.

I have a hip replacement and there are 2 reasons I bought an Swing

1. More comfortable for me with low seat and the cut outs in the footboards let me get my feet down easily and comfortably.

2. My Mrs could not get comfortable on any other Maxi Scooter, The foot pegs on the Swing knock the s*** off all the others.

I've had a Burgman 400, then a 650 Executive and now SW. I loved the Burgmans, but when LeDude's Burgman had a transmission failure (had to be the best maintained scooter on Earth!) I decided to get rid of it. Plus a VFR800 I saw on the showroom floor emptied my wallet. Yes, the Burgman was heavier and wider but it had more power and the electric windscreen was fantastic. If Suzuki hadn't made the transmission so complicated and it was a regular CVT I would probably still own it.

I still think a few years down the road a lot of this stuff about 650 Burgman transmission failure is just internet hysteria, there's been a few well publicised cases and everyone thinks it's contagious and going to happen to them.

It seems to be an over the Pond fear too, there's plenty of former and current 650 Burgman owners on the Muppets forum and the subject of transmission failure topic barely gets a mention, Some members have had 3 or 4 big Burgmans over the years, the only major problems seem to be reported from those who have bought earlier model badly maintained and neglected big Burgmans.

The 2013 onwards 650 Burgmans are also an improvement over the ones that came out about the same time as the FJS Silver Wing, and apart from still being too heavy and bulky for some riders that bought them, they seem to be a pretty good maxi scooter.

I agree with Meldrew----most complaints on Burgman 650 trans. Bikes bought used, unknown history, well out of warranty.....and I think owners wanted them fixed for free.

Should I buy a Burman 650, would get new, like easier rear wheel removal, no belt changes required and would expect 50,000 trouble free miles. Minus for me, they are heavy.

Hi John, unlike the UK which only gets the Kymco Xciting 400i ABS, the US has the Kymco Xciting 500 RI ABS, have you considered one has a replacement for your Silver Wing?

There's more details on their website but the Kymco has 38 BHP, Bosch ABS, comes in Charcoal or Gold, and at 473lbs it's a lot lighter than the 544lb Silver Wing. Price $6899.

I have thought about Kymco....But dealers in US?----PeopleGT300 I interesting, little under seat storage, ABS? BUT with right windshield could be buffeting free, nose close to tip of shield.

Based on past use/performance Burgman 400 still interesting-----Problem in US, wishing for new bike and having maxi scooter to trade....bottom has fallen out of maxi scooter market and in my case, used SilverWings have little value-----best way to get worth is to ride it out.

I admit I didn't have any problem with the B650 I had. I did succumb to the 'hysteria'. I had both a SW and the Burgman at the time and decided to part with the Burgman. If not for that I would have kept it, it is a very nice maxi. I wouldn't trade one for my BWM C650GT but it is a good scooter. They are almost the same in price although I do see some new 2015 B650s on Cycle Trader below $9k.